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	<title>Comments on: Rule by votemeter 2</title>
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	<link>http://nourishingobscurity.com/2009/11/24/rule-by-votemeter-2/</link>
	<description>Drawn back, as if to a horror movie</description>
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		<title>By: gracchi</title>
		<link>http://nourishingobscurity.com/2009/11/24/rule-by-votemeter-2/comment-page-1/#comment-2603</link>
		<dc:creator>gracchi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 23:32:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nourishingobscurity.com/2009/11/24/rule-by-votemeter-2/#comment-2603</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not mocking the test at all James! Its an interesting idea and one that deserves thinking about- that there are basic qualifications for voting beyond just being lucky enough to be born here. I&#039;m not sure what I think about it but its definitely something worth thinking about.

What I&#039;d like you to expand on is what you would do if your test excluded the majority- that&#039;s when it might become politically difficult for the test to survive.

I am genuinely not mocking you at all!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not mocking the test at all James! Its an interesting idea and one that deserves thinking about- that there are basic qualifications for voting beyond just being lucky enough to be born here. I&#8217;m not sure what I think about it but its definitely something worth thinking about.</p>
<p>What I&#8217;d like you to expand on is what you would do if your test excluded the majority- that&#8217;s when it might become politically difficult for the test to survive.</p>
<p>I am genuinely not mocking you at all!</p>
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		<title>By: Sackerson</title>
		<link>http://nourishingobscurity.com/2009/11/24/rule-by-votemeter-2/comment-page-1/#comment-2567</link>
		<dc:creator>Sackerson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 06:13:30 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&quot;The aim of the voting test is not political – it’s to check whether there is any knowledge base at all about this country’s past or whether it is only about Posh and Becks.&quot;

Now we&#039;re getting there. Instead of drawing arbitrary lines between voters and non-voters, it would be better to address the political and anti-historical agenda in schools, and the lamentable state of the Press and broadcast media (ignorantification at the tabloid end, sciolism at the broadsheet end).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The aim of the voting test is not political – it’s to check whether there is any knowledge base at all about this country’s past or whether it is only about Posh and Becks.&#8221;</p>
<p>Now we&#8217;re getting there. Instead of drawing arbitrary lines between voters and non-voters, it would be better to address the political and anti-historical agenda in schools, and the lamentable state of the Press and broadcast media (ignorantification at the tabloid end, sciolism at the broadsheet end).</p>
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		<title>By: James Higham</title>
		<link>http://nourishingobscurity.com/2009/11/24/rule-by-votemeter-2/comment-page-1/#comment-2564</link>
		<dc:creator>James Higham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 23:55:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nourishingobscurity.com/2009/11/24/rule-by-votemeter-2/#comment-2564</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m looking at the difference between someone who, when you ask, &quot;Who wrote Hamlet?&quot; answers, &quot;Huh?&quot;  and someone who answers, &quot;Shakespeare,&quot; rather than the difference between someone who answers &quot;the existentialists&quot; rather than &quot;phenomenologists&quot; when you ask, &quot;Which is the more pervasive philosophy in world history?&quot;

We needn&#039;t take extremes and mock the idea of having a test.  While political tests such as the Labour citizenship simply reflect the state of mind of Brownians, there are many entry tests to institutions which are rational and probing but not beyond a reasonable level. My entry test to the civil service [I understand it is a joke now] was quite searching and yet not impossible.

The aim of the voting test is not political - it&#039;s to check whether there is any knowledge base at all about this country&#039;s past or whether it is only about Posh and Becks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m looking at the difference between someone who, when you ask, &#8220;Who wrote Hamlet?&#8221; answers, &#8220;Huh?&#8221;  and someone who answers, &#8220;Shakespeare,&#8221; rather than the difference between someone who answers &#8220;the existentialists&#8221; rather than &#8220;phenomenologists&#8221; when you ask, &#8220;Which is the more pervasive philosophy in world history?&#8221;</p>
<p>We needn&#8217;t take extremes and mock the idea of having a test.  While political tests such as the Labour citizenship simply reflect the state of mind of Brownians, there are many entry tests to institutions which are rational and probing but not beyond a reasonable level. My entry test to the civil service [I understand it is a joke now] was quite searching and yet not impossible.</p>
<p>The aim of the voting test is not political &#8211; it&#8217;s to check whether there is any knowledge base at all about this country&#8217;s past or whether it is only about Posh and Becks.</p>
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		<title>By: gracchi</title>
		<link>http://nourishingobscurity.com/2009/11/24/rule-by-votemeter-2/comment-page-1/#comment-2561</link>
		<dc:creator>gracchi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 22:53:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nourishingobscurity.com/2009/11/24/rule-by-votemeter-2/#comment-2561</guid>
		<description>I think there should be questions if there are any which identified whether people understood what the hell was going on- so what does inflation mean? (Answer an estimate of the percentage increase in prices) or what is the difference between relative and absolute poverty or describe the ideas of John Maynard Keynes or Karl Marx or another important modern analyst of politics like Hayek and you should test them on how well they understand the macro level of politics. One of the things I&#039;m more and more aware of is how distinct the field of politics is from the field of policy and its not just about power but also about the degree of understanding and information from the media out there.

Incidentally how would you deal with the issue of the majority being ignorant James (if they were), if they were would they have the right to throw out the knowledgable minority or would they have to acquire knowledge that some of them don&#039;t want to do so?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think there should be questions if there are any which identified whether people understood what the hell was going on- so what does inflation mean? (Answer an estimate of the percentage increase in prices) or what is the difference between relative and absolute poverty or describe the ideas of John Maynard Keynes or Karl Marx or another important modern analyst of politics like Hayek and you should test them on how well they understand the macro level of politics. One of the things I&#8217;m more and more aware of is how distinct the field of politics is from the field of policy and its not just about power but also about the degree of understanding and information from the media out there.</p>
<p>Incidentally how would you deal with the issue of the majority being ignorant James (if they were), if they were would they have the right to throw out the knowledgable minority or would they have to acquire knowledge that some of them don&#8217;t want to do so?</p>
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		<title>By: CherryPie</title>
		<link>http://nourishingobscurity.com/2009/11/24/rule-by-votemeter-2/comment-page-1/#comment-2554</link>
		<dc:creator>CherryPie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 21:49:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nourishingobscurity.com/2009/11/24/rule-by-votemeter-2/#comment-2554</guid>
		<description>You don&#039;t expect me to remember the numbers of posts at this time of night do you ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You don&#8217;t expect me to remember the numbers of posts at this time of night do you <img src='http://nourishingobscurity.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: James Higham</title>
		<link>http://nourishingobscurity.com/2009/11/24/rule-by-votemeter-2/comment-page-1/#comment-2551</link>
		<dc:creator>James Higham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 21:42:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nourishingobscurity.com/2009/11/24/rule-by-votemeter-2/#comment-2551</guid>
		<description>Lord T
November 24, 2009 at 14:15 (Edit)

James,

And would the tests be about real world stuff like balancing a chequebook or just how to make sure that commas were in the right place. The questions should reflect real world issues and not just a list of stupid questions like the citizenship one. It should have relevance to what is going on and show an understanding that when you vote for X then Y will be the payment. Not like California where they can vote for low taxes but big state benefits.

It would be interesting seeing what you think should be in such a test.


James Higham
November 24, 2009 at 16:30 (Edit)

This is too big a topic – this will be part three.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lord T<br />
November 24, 2009 at 14:15 (Edit)</p>
<p>James,</p>
<p>And would the tests be about real world stuff like balancing a chequebook or just how to make sure that commas were in the right place. The questions should reflect real world issues and not just a list of stupid questions like the citizenship one. It should have relevance to what is going on and show an understanding that when you vote for X then Y will be the payment. Not like California where they can vote for low taxes but big state benefits.</p>
<p>It would be interesting seeing what you think should be in such a test.</p>
<p>James Higham<br />
November 24, 2009 at 16:30 (Edit)</p>
<p>This is too big a topic – this will be part three.</p>
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		<title>By: CherryPie</title>
		<link>http://nourishingobscurity.com/2009/11/24/rule-by-votemeter-2/comment-page-1/#comment-2548</link>
		<dc:creator>CherryPie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 21:34:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nourishingobscurity.com/2009/11/24/rule-by-votemeter-2/#comment-2548</guid>
		<description>You still haven&#039;t mentioned what sort of questions you are thinking of?

Will they be varied giving everyone a chance to have some knowledge in at least some of the areas?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You still haven&#8217;t mentioned what sort of questions you are thinking of?</p>
<p>Will they be varied giving everyone a chance to have some knowledge in at least some of the areas?</p>
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		<title>By: James Higham</title>
		<link>http://nourishingobscurity.com/2009/11/24/rule-by-votemeter-2/comment-page-1/#comment-2544</link>
		<dc:creator>James Higham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 20:10:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nourishingobscurity.com/2009/11/24/rule-by-votemeter-2/#comment-2544</guid>
		<description>Yes, I&#039;m not particularly interested in our political class in this. It is clearly after they&#039;ve been dealt with.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, I&#8217;m not particularly interested in our political class in this. It is clearly after they&#8217;ve been dealt with.</p>
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		<title>By: QM</title>
		<link>http://nourishingobscurity.com/2009/11/24/rule-by-votemeter-2/comment-page-1/#comment-2543</link>
		<dc:creator>QM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 19:29:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nourishingobscurity.com/2009/11/24/rule-by-votemeter-2/#comment-2543</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s a worthy idea, but I can&#039;t see our political class going for it, not without the obligatory revolution first complete with hangings etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s a worthy idea, but I can&#8217;t see our political class going for it, not without the obligatory revolution first complete with hangings etc.</p>
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		<title>By: Sackerson</title>
		<link>http://nourishingobscurity.com/2009/11/24/rule-by-votemeter-2/comment-page-1/#comment-2537</link>
		<dc:creator>Sackerson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 16:57:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nourishingobscurity.com/2009/11/24/rule-by-votemeter-2/#comment-2537</guid>
		<description>Peter Cook sorted this idea 39 years ago:

Taking a subversive look at the road to political success, the film lampoons politicians and the suspiciously ambitious as Rimmer manipulates, cheats and murders his way to the top of his profession and eventually to the head of all government: President of Great Britain. His ‘charisma-heavy’, ‘policy-light’ style of leadership, through relentless opinion polls, referenda and underhand electoral practices, somehow wins the hearts of the nation – at the expense of the country.

http://www.moviemail-online.co.uk/film/dvd/The-Rise-and-Rise-of-Michael-Rimmer/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Peter Cook sorted this idea 39 years ago:</p>
<p>Taking a subversive look at the road to political success, the film lampoons politicians and the suspiciously ambitious as Rimmer manipulates, cheats and murders his way to the top of his profession and eventually to the head of all government: President of Great Britain. His ‘charisma-heavy’, ‘policy-light’ style of leadership, through relentless opinion polls, referenda and underhand electoral practices, somehow wins the hearts of the nation – at the expense of the country.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.moviemail-online.co.uk/film/dvd/The-Rise-and-Rise-of-Michael-Rimmer/" rel="nofollow">http://www.moviemail-online.co.uk/film/dvd/The-Rise-and-Rise-of-Michael-Rimmer/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Witteringsfromwitney</title>
		<link>http://nourishingobscurity.com/2009/11/24/rule-by-votemeter-2/comment-page-1/#comment-2532</link>
		<dc:creator>Witteringsfromwitney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 13:40:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nourishingobscurity.com/2009/11/24/rule-by-votemeter-2/#comment-2532</guid>
		<description>Interesting James. Now need to print off (yes, lets not consider the environment) part 1 and 2 and study in depth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting James. Now need to print off (yes, lets not consider the environment) part 1 and 2 and study in depth.</p>
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