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	<title>Comments on: Steps to getting this coalition afloat</title>
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		<title>By: Lord T</title>
		<link>http://nourishingobscurity.com/2009/11/05/steps-to-getting-this-coalition-afloat/comment-page-1/#comment-1521</link>
		<dc:creator>Lord T</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 10:39:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nourishingobscurity.com/?p=3025#comment-1521</guid>
		<description>That followed with ManinaSheds suggestion on the &lt;a href=&quot;http://nourishingobscurity.com/2009/11/05/short-open-letter-to-disaffected-tories/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Short open letter post&lt;/a&gt; seems a good way to go.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That followed with ManinaSheds suggestion on the <a href="http://nourishingobscurity.com/2009/11/05/short-open-letter-to-disaffected-tories/" rel="nofollow">Short open letter post</a> seems a good way to go.</p>
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		<title>By: The Economic Voice</title>
		<link>http://nourishingobscurity.com/2009/11/05/steps-to-getting-this-coalition-afloat/comment-page-1/#comment-1502</link>
		<dc:creator>The Economic Voice</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 00:16:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nourishingobscurity.com/?p=3025#comment-1502</guid>
		<description>On a practical level a meeting must be arranged between the leaders of said parties. A way of contacting and bringing in the disaffected Tory MPs/MEPs/MEP/ MP candidates to properly coordinate this outside of the blogs must also be organised. If a leader e.g. Dan Han is to be put forward and agreed upon he must be contacted brought to such a meeting. If this to get off the ground then the mentioned and critical individuals involved must be willing participants......that I believe is step one. All stops must be pulled out to contact these people and find out if they are up for this proposition.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On a practical level a meeting must be arranged between the leaders of said parties. A way of contacting and bringing in the disaffected Tory MPs/MEPs/MEP/ MP candidates to properly coordinate this outside of the blogs must also be organised. If a leader e.g. Dan Han is to be put forward and agreed upon he must be contacted brought to such a meeting. If this to get off the ground then the mentioned and critical individuals involved must be willing participants&#8230;&#8230;that I believe is step one. All stops must be pulled out to contact these people and find out if they are up for this proposition.</p>
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		<title>By: Brit politics suddenly interesting &#8211; time for a coalition to win in 2010 &#124; nourishing obscurity</title>
		<link>http://nourishingobscurity.com/2009/11/05/steps-to-getting-this-coalition-afloat/comment-page-1/#comment-1496</link>
		<dc:creator>Brit politics suddenly interesting &#8211; time for a coalition to win in 2010 &#124; nourishing obscurity</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Nov 2009 23:02:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nourishingobscurity.com/?p=3025#comment-1496</guid>
		<description>[...] This is continued on this post. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] This is continued on this post. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Lord T</title>
		<link>http://nourishingobscurity.com/2009/11/05/steps-to-getting-this-coalition-afloat/comment-page-1/#comment-1489</link>
		<dc:creator>Lord T</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Nov 2009 21:41:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nourishingobscurity.com/?p=3025#comment-1489</guid>
		<description>“Keeping Brown’s lot out is the first priority.”

Why?   If they are being replaced with just another socialist trough feeder then by keeping Gordo in we save on at least one PMs salary and pension.  It will show the competition that they need to be different. Plus having Gordo in for another term will bring more of the masses to awareness.   Salt the earth.

How do we know they are ProEU or not?  We look at their voting records on free votes and we ask them when in doubt.   If they go against while in the seat we simply vote against them next time.

btw: We need to do something about making manifesto pledges binding.  OK, OK, I know that things change but still it should be looked at as there must be a compromise.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>“Keeping Brown’s lot out is the first priority.”</p>
<p>Why?   If they are being replaced with just another socialist trough feeder then by keeping Gordo in we save on at least one PMs salary and pension.  It will show the competition that they need to be different. Plus having Gordo in for another term will bring more of the masses to awareness.   Salt the earth.</p>
<p>How do we know they are ProEU or not?  We look at their voting records on free votes and we ask them when in doubt.   If they go against while in the seat we simply vote against them next time.</p>
<p>btw: We need to do something about making manifesto pledges binding.  OK, OK, I know that things change but still it should be looked at as there must be a compromise.</p>
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		<title>By: Trooper Thompson</title>
		<link>http://nourishingobscurity.com/2009/11/05/steps-to-getting-this-coalition-afloat/comment-page-1/#comment-1487</link>
		<dc:creator>Trooper Thompson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Nov 2009 21:19:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nourishingobscurity.com/?p=3025#comment-1487</guid>
		<description>James,

&quot;Keeping Brown’s lot out is the first priority.&quot;

You&#039;ve got to get Brown&#039;s lot out before you can keep Brown&#039;s lot out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>James,</p>
<p>&#8220;Keeping Brown’s lot out is the first priority.&#8221;</p>
<p>You&#8217;ve got to get Brown&#8217;s lot out before you can keep Brown&#8217;s lot out.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Scott</title>
		<link>http://nourishingobscurity.com/2009/11/05/steps-to-getting-this-coalition-afloat/comment-page-1/#comment-1486</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Nov 2009 21:17:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nourishingobscurity.com/?p=3025#comment-1486</guid>
		<description>Well I would vote for ANY party, pretty much, if I thought they had a real chance of ending First Past the Post and introducing proportional democracy. I&#039;d snuggle up with anyone to achieve that; then abandon them as I wished once the job was done. But the Tories aren&#039;t going to do it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well I would vote for ANY party, pretty much, if I thought they had a real chance of ending First Past the Post and introducing proportional democracy. I&#8217;d snuggle up with anyone to achieve that; then abandon them as I wished once the job was done. But the Tories aren&#8217;t going to do it.</p>
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		<title>By: Trooper Thompson</title>
		<link>http://nourishingobscurity.com/2009/11/05/steps-to-getting-this-coalition-afloat/comment-page-1/#comment-1485</link>
		<dc:creator>Trooper Thompson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Nov 2009 21:14:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nourishingobscurity.com/?p=3025#comment-1485</guid>
		<description>&quot;We simply need to get away from party politics.&quot;

Agreed, but the question is how? I suggest by rising above, appealing over the heads of the parties on grounds of populism and nationalism of a kind capable of touching the hearts of people whether they&#039;re rightwing or leftwing or neither. 

As a libertarian, I despise new laws that take from my meagre store of freedom and add to the ever more bulging treasury of tyrannical state prerogative. 

As an ordinary person, I am constantly enraged by the mess that has been made of our criminal justice system.

Both of these problems are caused and perpetuated by the parties that dominate the so-called Parliament. 

As for the first, all parties claim to believe in individual rights, but I want something in writing, because they&#039;re untrustworthy sons-of-bitches.

On the second I propose a massive reduction of the criminal law, back to its barest bones, with straightforward sentencing of the convicted with regard to necessary punishment and the protection of the public.

Individual rights must be guaranteed, the criminal law must be simple and effective, these are my demands, of any government that wishes to be considered legitimate in my eyes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;We simply need to get away from party politics.&#8221;</p>
<p>Agreed, but the question is how? I suggest by rising above, appealing over the heads of the parties on grounds of populism and nationalism of a kind capable of touching the hearts of people whether they&#8217;re rightwing or leftwing or neither. </p>
<p>As a libertarian, I despise new laws that take from my meagre store of freedom and add to the ever more bulging treasury of tyrannical state prerogative. </p>
<p>As an ordinary person, I am constantly enraged by the mess that has been made of our criminal justice system.</p>
<p>Both of these problems are caused and perpetuated by the parties that dominate the so-called Parliament. </p>
<p>As for the first, all parties claim to believe in individual rights, but I want something in writing, because they&#8217;re untrustworthy sons-of-bitches.</p>
<p>On the second I propose a massive reduction of the criminal law, back to its barest bones, with straightforward sentencing of the convicted with regard to necessary punishment and the protection of the public.</p>
<p>Individual rights must be guaranteed, the criminal law must be simple and effective, these are my demands, of any government that wishes to be considered legitimate in my eyes.</p>
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		<title>By: James Higham</title>
		<link>http://nourishingobscurity.com/2009/11/05/steps-to-getting-this-coalition-afloat/comment-page-1/#comment-1484</link>
		<dc:creator>James Higham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Nov 2009 21:02:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nourishingobscurity.com/?p=3025#comment-1484</guid>
		<description>Andrew, I have no problem with died in the wool opponents but the best thing to do is just have a beer with the chap or a Scotch.  The total number of UK political bloggers is heavily weighted to the Centre-Right.

As far as national percentages go in the community, well, the polls have been conducted, haven&#039;t they?  Labour&#039;s knackered.  I live in a Labour area and many are going sideways.  They&#039;ll never go Tory [the enemy] but they say they&#039;ll not vote Labour - these are traditionalists.

The issues they cite are the same ones we cite.  There is quite a body of that opinion in the community and about 30% who are in dreamland and still think Labour is a neat idea and Blair is wonderful.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andrew, I have no problem with died in the wool opponents but the best thing to do is just have a beer with the chap or a Scotch.  The total number of UK political bloggers is heavily weighted to the Centre-Right.</p>
<p>As far as national percentages go in the community, well, the polls have been conducted, haven&#8217;t they?  Labour&#8217;s knackered.  I live in a Labour area and many are going sideways.  They&#8217;ll never go Tory [the enemy] but they say they&#8217;ll not vote Labour &#8211; these are traditionalists.</p>
<p>The issues they cite are the same ones we cite.  There is quite a body of that opinion in the community and about 30% who are in dreamland and still think Labour is a neat idea and Blair is wonderful.</p>
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		<title>By: James Higham</title>
		<link>http://nourishingobscurity.com/2009/11/05/steps-to-getting-this-coalition-afloat/comment-page-1/#comment-1483</link>
		<dc:creator>James Higham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Nov 2009 20:56:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nourishingobscurity.com/?p=3025#comment-1483</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s a fine line to be trod.  It&#039;s a case of not breaking up the Tories [in our case] but simply combining with other likeminded people to get the numbers to govern.  Keeping Brown&#039;s lot out is the first priority.

I suppose it just seems ridiculous to me that I think the same way as many other fellow bloggers and yet we&#039;re split over three parties.  We really can take Britain back - even Tim Worstall says that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s a fine line to be trod.  It&#8217;s a case of not breaking up the Tories [in our case] but simply combining with other likeminded people to get the numbers to govern.  Keeping Brown&#8217;s lot out is the first priority.</p>
<p>I suppose it just seems ridiculous to me that I think the same way as many other fellow bloggers and yet we&#8217;re split over three parties.  We really can take Britain back &#8211; even Tim Worstall says that.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Scott</title>
		<link>http://nourishingobscurity.com/2009/11/05/steps-to-getting-this-coalition-afloat/comment-page-1/#comment-1481</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Nov 2009 20:50:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nourishingobscurity.com/?p=3025#comment-1481</guid>
		<description>&quot;represents the views of the bulk of the blogosphere&quot;??? You must be very selective in the sites you visit James. You should do more of what I do and visit the folks who disagree with your natural instincts. It&#039;s much more stimulating and challenging than hanging around with people who just nod and say &quot;Yeah, we know&quot; all the time. Good luck though. We&#039;ve got to get rid of the perversion of democracy that is First Past the Post. I wonder if we can agree on that?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;represents the views of the bulk of the blogosphere&#8221;??? You must be very selective in the sites you visit James. You should do more of what I do and visit the folks who disagree with your natural instincts. It&#8217;s much more stimulating and challenging than hanging around with people who just nod and say &#8220;Yeah, we know&#8221; all the time. Good luck though. We&#8217;ve got to get rid of the perversion of democracy that is First Past the Post. I wonder if we can agree on that?</p>
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		<title>By: QM</title>
		<link>http://nourishingobscurity.com/2009/11/05/steps-to-getting-this-coalition-afloat/comment-page-1/#comment-1478</link>
		<dc:creator>QM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Nov 2009 20:32:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nourishingobscurity.com/?p=3025#comment-1478</guid>
		<description>Interesting reading, however we do need some intelligence on the ground so to speak. How do we know who the EUsceptic MP&#039;s will be, there are going to be a lot of new faces in Parliament next year as a lot of the troughers are forced out.

I will vote EUsceptic though, but I&#039;d hate for my vote to be wasted if there&#039;s more than one splitting the vote.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting reading, however we do need some intelligence on the ground so to speak. How do we know who the EUsceptic MP&#8217;s will be, there are going to be a lot of new faces in Parliament next year as a lot of the troughers are forced out.</p>
<p>I will vote EUsceptic though, but I&#8217;d hate for my vote to be wasted if there&#8217;s more than one splitting the vote.</p>
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		<title>By: Lord T</title>
		<link>http://nourishingobscurity.com/2009/11/05/steps-to-getting-this-coalition-afloat/comment-page-1/#comment-1477</link>
		<dc:creator>Lord T</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Nov 2009 20:23:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nourishingobscurity.com/?p=3025#comment-1477</guid>
		<description>Trooper,

This all falls down when there are only three boxes to tick on the ballot because nobody else is standing.   the big three have tied it up this way for decades.   We simply need to get away from party politics.

James has ideas for the policy of a party in here but we don&#039;t need any policies at all.  We only need to repeal the ones put in place and I&#039;ve suggested before we should repeal every one put in place since this lot took over.   Every one.   That alone would be of benefit to the country.   Then looking at every one after that and repealing them if necessary.

A coalition, in effect a hung parliament, would therefor only agree on what was good for the majority.  Not a dictator like Gordo or cameron.  It could then look at reducing the size of the state.  LPUK have a good policy here.  Just get rid of everything outside core requirements.

The business side, when freed, would look after itself and it would be told, no bailouts.

Now the election after that will be interesting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Trooper,</p>
<p>This all falls down when there are only three boxes to tick on the ballot because nobody else is standing.   the big three have tied it up this way for decades.   We simply need to get away from party politics.</p>
<p>James has ideas for the policy of a party in here but we don&#8217;t need any policies at all.  We only need to repeal the ones put in place and I&#8217;ve suggested before we should repeal every one put in place since this lot took over.   Every one.   That alone would be of benefit to the country.   Then looking at every one after that and repealing them if necessary.</p>
<p>A coalition, in effect a hung parliament, would therefor only agree on what was good for the majority.  Not a dictator like Gordo or cameron.  It could then look at reducing the size of the state.  LPUK have a good policy here.  Just get rid of everything outside core requirements.</p>
<p>The business side, when freed, would look after itself and it would be told, no bailouts.</p>
<p>Now the election after that will be interesting.</p>
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		<title>By: Trooper Thompson</title>
		<link>http://nourishingobscurity.com/2009/11/05/steps-to-getting-this-coalition-afloat/comment-page-1/#comment-1476</link>
		<dc:creator>Trooper Thompson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Nov 2009 20:08:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nourishingobscurity.com/?p=3025#comment-1476</guid>
		<description>Sue&#039;s right that a party is not needed, in the strict sense. The only way it could work (in my humble opinion) is on the basis of a manifesto of constitutional counter-revolution, something like a Grand Remonstrance, something stating to the political class &quot;you have failed us, lining your own pockets, sleeping on the job you were paid to do: to defend the sovereignty of this nation and the rights of the people. We want this, this and this, without which you can stuff your election.&quot;

This election is fast approaching, and if nothing else, it must be used as a weapon against the encumbant Parliament. The very first step in this is NOT TO VOTE FOR LIB/LAB/CON. The only exception to this would be where the candidate is prepared to swear his or her support for this Grand Remonstrance.

A coalition of the willing can embrace whole parties, if they concur with the manifesto, which I would see as a set of constitutional changes, that establishes the principles of national sovereigny, limited, democratic government and individual rights, guaranteed by a Bill of Rights.

The most important issue at stake right now is national sovereignty. If this falls, democracy will no longer provide the means to change our government or laws. The political class will be out of range.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sue&#8217;s right that a party is not needed, in the strict sense. The only way it could work (in my humble opinion) is on the basis of a manifesto of constitutional counter-revolution, something like a Grand Remonstrance, something stating to the political class &#8220;you have failed us, lining your own pockets, sleeping on the job you were paid to do: to defend the sovereignty of this nation and the rights of the people. We want this, this and this, without which you can stuff your election.&#8221;</p>
<p>This election is fast approaching, and if nothing else, it must be used as a weapon against the encumbant Parliament. The very first step in this is NOT TO VOTE FOR LIB/LAB/CON. The only exception to this would be where the candidate is prepared to swear his or her support for this Grand Remonstrance.</p>
<p>A coalition of the willing can embrace whole parties, if they concur with the manifesto, which I would see as a set of constitutional changes, that establishes the principles of national sovereigny, limited, democratic government and individual rights, guaranteed by a Bill of Rights.</p>
<p>The most important issue at stake right now is national sovereignty. If this falls, democracy will no longer provide the means to change our government or laws. The political class will be out of range.</p>
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		<title>By: James Higham</title>
		<link>http://nourishingobscurity.com/2009/11/05/steps-to-getting-this-coalition-afloat/comment-page-1/#comment-1475</link>
		<dc:creator>James Higham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Nov 2009 19:50:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nourishingobscurity.com/?p=3025#comment-1475</guid>
		<description>Yes, I&#039;ll put him in now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, I&#8217;ll put him in now.</p>
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		<title>By: Lord T</title>
		<link>http://nourishingobscurity.com/2009/11/05/steps-to-getting-this-coalition-afloat/comment-page-1/#comment-1474</link>
		<dc:creator>Lord T</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Nov 2009 19:43:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nourishingobscurity.com/?p=3025#comment-1474</guid>
		<description>What I was trying to say there is we should get rid of party politics.  The system is fine.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What I was trying to say there is we should get rid of party politics.  The system is fine.</p>
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		<title>By: Lord T</title>
		<link>http://nourishingobscurity.com/2009/11/05/steps-to-getting-this-coalition-afloat/comment-page-1/#comment-1473</link>
		<dc:creator>Lord T</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Nov 2009 19:37:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nourishingobscurity.com/?p=3025#comment-1473</guid>
		<description>Sue,

I agree.  That is really what is wrong with our version of democracy.  The politicians have banded together and insteadof examining their policies we just vote for a rosette.

If a candidate stood on a platform for everything we wanted (and that will be different for everyone) he should get our votes.

It wasn&#039;t that long ago the tories stood for the party of small government.  No longer. Under cameron they are no better than Gordos useless bunch of socialists.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sue,</p>
<p>I agree.  That is really what is wrong with our version of democracy.  The politicians have banded together and insteadof examining their policies we just vote for a rosette.</p>
<p>If a candidate stood on a platform for everything we wanted (and that will be different for everyone) he should get our votes.</p>
<p>It wasn&#8217;t that long ago the tories stood for the party of small government.  No longer. Under cameron they are no better than Gordos useless bunch of socialists.</p>
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		<title>By: Sue</title>
		<link>http://nourishingobscurity.com/2009/11/05/steps-to-getting-this-coalition-afloat/comment-page-1/#comment-1472</link>
		<dc:creator>Sue</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Nov 2009 19:29:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nourishingobscurity.com/?p=3025#comment-1472</guid>
		<description>We don&#039;t need to create a party, just a good alliance. There&#039;s no rule that says a party has to govern a country. A good democratic government can also consist of many independents who have been voted in by their local constituents. That is true democracy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We don&#8217;t need to create a party, just a good alliance. There&#8217;s no rule that says a party has to govern a country. A good democratic government can also consist of many independents who have been voted in by their local constituents. That is true democracy.</p>
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		<title>By: Sue</title>
		<link>http://nourishingobscurity.com/2009/11/05/steps-to-getting-this-coalition-afloat/comment-page-1/#comment-1471</link>
		<dc:creator>Sue</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Nov 2009 19:25:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nourishingobscurity.com/?p=3025#comment-1471</guid>
		<description>Great ideas James. What about Douglas Carswell? He seems pretty unhappy with Cameron at the moment too. There are plenty of MP&#039;s who currently have a seat who are honest in both Conservative and Labour camps. Perhaps it&#039;s worth looking at some of those too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great ideas James. What about Douglas Carswell? He seems pretty unhappy with Cameron at the moment too. There are plenty of MP&#8217;s who currently have a seat who are honest in both Conservative and Labour camps. Perhaps it&#8217;s worth looking at some of those too.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Lord T</title>
		<link>http://nourishingobscurity.com/2009/11/05/steps-to-getting-this-coalition-afloat/comment-page-1/#comment-1469</link>
		<dc:creator>Lord T</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Nov 2009 19:22:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nourishingobscurity.com/?p=3025#comment-1469</guid>
		<description>Not sure you are looking at creating a party here.    You don&#039;t need to.  We are talking about a goverment to help the people.

You leave the NonEU Tories in the tory party, the UKIP and LPUK already have their parties.   If they don&#039;t stand against other Eurosceptics and they get in they work together on the areas where they are aligned.  In particular the EU.  If  proEU tory stands and either the UKIP or the LPUK stand against them and that politician or even labour or lib dem is elected then so be it.

If this is stated then roll the dice and lets go.

Personally I think there is still a massive amount of people who don&#039;t see a problem.   If that is the case let&#039;s salt the earth and  give labour another term.   Make the wheel turn faster to get to our destination one way or another.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not sure you are looking at creating a party here.    You don&#8217;t need to.  We are talking about a goverment to help the people.</p>
<p>You leave the NonEU Tories in the tory party, the UKIP and LPUK already have their parties.   If they don&#8217;t stand against other Eurosceptics and they get in they work together on the areas where they are aligned.  In particular the EU.  If  proEU tory stands and either the UKIP or the LPUK stand against them and that politician or even labour or lib dem is elected then so be it.</p>
<p>If this is stated then roll the dice and lets go.</p>
<p>Personally I think there is still a massive amount of people who don&#8217;t see a problem.   If that is the case let&#8217;s salt the earth and  give labour another term.   Make the wheel turn faster to get to our destination one way or another.</p>
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